Posts by Doubting Bro

69

KS Blood-Handout s-55-e (PDF)!!!

by yknot in

we interrupt your forum posting for this 'just in' item...... it appears an elder has not locked his doctor's bag and a member of the conscious class has brazeningly swiped & scanned a copy of the s-55e.

(((thank you anonymous cc jw!.

for the purpose of our bethel audience i want to assure you no actual elder was willingly involved in the obtaining of this scan.. link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mnf7a0.

Doubting Bro

This goes along with conversations I've had with someone I know on the HLC. We were talking about young kids (not "mature minors") and he described trying to fight blood for a young one as "pissing in the wind". He's right, they can get court orders easily and quickly and the only thing the parents get is legal bills (provided there's a non-WT lawyer involved), headaches and news coverage. He said that as long as the parent's objections are noted, they have done the best they could.

Now, maybe this person disagrees with the WTS stance on blood and is a reformer. I just don't get that sense at all given what I know about him. He's also pretty moderate as far as elders with big circuit/district responsibilities go but I don't see him as a liberal. So, maybe that's what his personal ideas are but he presented them to me as the official HLC party line.

I really think this handout is simply to save the HLC time from getting involved in every case when a young child needs an operation.

BTW - the sentence about not talking about the resurrection hope just proves how deceitful the WTS wants their followers to be. So, on the one hand, the main arguement as to why JWs don't worry about withholding life saving treatment is because God can bring the child back anyway and it's more important to abstain from "blood". On the other hand, don't talk about that main doctrine?

69

KS Blood-Handout s-55-e (PDF)!!!

by yknot in

we interrupt your forum posting for this 'just in' item...... it appears an elder has not locked his doctor's bag and a member of the conscious class has brazeningly swiped & scanned a copy of the s-55e.

(((thank you anonymous cc jw!.

for the purpose of our bethel audience i want to assure you no actual elder was willingly involved in the obtaining of this scan.. link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mnf7a0.

Doubting Bro

Thanks so much ynot and your source!! Fantastic, this handout is available before the elders in my area even go to the KM school.

I didn't pick up anything new but cerainly there is no softening of the position. To think I would have once let someone I love die because of what a stupid religion told me to do shakes me to the core.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

Amen, MLE.

Sorry to keep hovering over this thread, but the other comments SIAM made are also notable. The admission that there have never been more problems within the congos? That stands in stark contrast to their spiritual paradise teaching. Now, admitting that to the circuit elders isn't nearly as big of a deal as announcing it to the r&f but how much do you want to bet that that comment will find it's way into local parts?

If the GB knows that there local reps are under pressure, why can't they see that it's because of them? It's the GB's directives that are causing the average JW to rebel. Now, that's spread to their appointed elders/ms.

I know high control religions react to the loss of control by tightening their grip. It's clear here thats what is happening. I'm not surprised that they're blaming the locals for all the problems when in reality, they should take a look at the culture they've created and do something about it.

This is the reason why I don't think reform is possible because they refuse to look in the mirror as a source of the problems.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

SIAM - I agree with what's your saying. I remember the last KM school (I was still an elder at that time) when they the new rules on porn viewing there was some very inconsistant ways the new rules were applied. And, a letter was sent out clarifying how the rules were to work. So, I think you're right about them coming up with new instructions.

But, it sounds pretty clear cut in a lot of ways.

I know it sounds somewhat harsh of me to want this to result in the elder I'm talking about being removed and its honestly pretty bad of me to think this way, but my wife is adamant that the WTS is merely pointing out the pitfalls of going off to school and is not anti-education. She also didn't believe me when I told her an elder/ms could lose their position if their kid went to college.

If I could point to a real life, local example of an uber-JW being forced to choose between his kids education and his position, I think it would help her see just how controlling the religion is. I hope he makes the right choice but you never know. Again, I realize that there are other peoples future at stake here but I'm not the one coming up with these crazy rules. Just trying to use them to my advantage to make a point.

Sounds like the reversal of the pre-92 (or whatever year it was) education stance is complete.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

SIAM - thanks for posting those questions. You know, they are really pretty subjective. When I think about the elders in my congo that currently have kids in college, I could see the BOE saying yes to pretty much everything. One in particular is very conservative with the exception of sending his kids to college. His son graduated a couple of years ago and is a MS. He has 2 daughters in school now.

It sounds like they are going to be reviewing his "qualifications". Now, he may decide to step down as a result of this part. He's tried before for reasons that show him to be very conservative (tearful confessions over things that weren't that big of a deal). But, if he doesn't, I can tell you that this BOE will not remove him based on this. What happens when the CO comes may be a different thing but the current CO is an adult convert who I believe has a college education.

I'll bet the application of this rule will be inconsistant.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

SIAM - That sounds about right around here.

Was there a "encourage former servants to reach out once again" part? I know in my congregation, the ex-elders outnumber current elders.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

lwt - I don't know. I think at first their function was to actually enforce the blood ban. But, as more and more things became MOC, their main function now is the inform the R&F about which things they can do and which are MOC.

That policy is so confusing, the average JW doesn't realize just how much stuff they can take without organizational sanctions.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

sir82 - your description is what I understood the HLC stance to be.

MLE - I think sir82 was saying to reverse the fraction stance back to a complete ban.

If that's the case, the younger guys are way more hardcore than the older ones.

I still think we won't really know how much hardline the GB 2.0 will be until they appoint new members which I gotta believe is already in the works with them losing 2 this year.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

SIAM - That's interesting regarding the trust in the fds talk. The tone of the WT study articles especially recently have been to "trust the slave" almost to the point that it's a weekly happening. Obviously, they are frustrated with the average JW and realize that they don't have the influence they once did.

So, who should they blame? Themselves? Nah, it must be that those stupid local yokels low level managers are screwing up!! They obviously are materalistic and more concerned about their kids getting decent jobs than they are with following the "loving" counsel. What to do, what to do??? I know, let's berate them for half an hour towards the end of their special program.

wow - I am glad I don't have to sit through that any longer! SIAM and xbehere you guys have my sympathy.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

Thanks for the highlights (or lowlights I should say).

1 - Blood - I'm really surprised they are pushing on the blood ban for children. I've had discussions with HLC reps that I'm friendly with on how they deal with kids. I recall being told that the "best" the HLC can do is require a court order for each pint of blood. The one person (whom I've known for a long time) told me that they really focus on adults and "mature minors" as opposed to younger kids. He was basically saying that the HLC typically won't make a big deal over young children because they can't really win. I'm wondering, was it directed at kids in the "mature minor" sort of age range (14+)?

2 - I KNEW they were really going to crack down on appointed men who allowed their kids to get an education. I know it has been reported here that during CO visits maybe a year or so ago, that it was in the outline that the CO reviews with the BOE that having a kid in college could call their "qualifications" into question. It sounded like it was handled differently depending on the CO but if they're putting it in the KM school program, they obviously want to clarify the position. My wife does not believe me when I tell her that it's possible to be removed for having a kid in college. In my congregation, ALL of the elders that have had kids old enough have sent their kids to college. And, there is one that currently has 2 kids in college (1 in community college and 1 in a regular 4 year school). All 3 of his kids were on the do 2 years of cc and then transfer the credits to a 4 year school plan which is actually a great way to save cash (in the US).

Any chance you could post the questions or PM me with them. I suddenly feel the need to work in service with this guy and ask a ton of questions about his kids prior to him going to the school over Christmas weekend!!

Edited to add: Also, there are a couple of MS who were appointed in the last year or so that were appointed WHILE attending college!! And, one of them is now a reg pioneer (couldn't find a full time position right away and he just graduated this year). WTF?